A candid, fast-moving convo with a Dominican sociology PhD on anti-Blackness, the myth of a single “Latino vote,” anti-intellectualism, and how we actually fix things—schools, barbershops, and community boards included. Expect history, receipts, and practical steps you can use today. Episode Summary In this episode, we go deep on race, identity, and power with a Dominican scholar currently pursuing a PhD in sociology. We unpack how colonization and colorism still shape media, music, and everyday life across the Caribbean and Latin America, why “Latinidad” often erases Black and Indigenous people, and why there’s never been a single “Latino voting bloc.” We also hit today’s anti-intellectual wave—why it lands differently with men—and get tactical about change: funding after-school programs, showing up at community board meetings, and having better conversations in real spaces (yes, barbershops). If you care about Afro-Latinidad, Dominican identity, and building opportunity for the next generation, this one’s for you.
Big themes:
Anti-Blackness & colorism • Colonial legacies • Media erasure vs. representation • “Latinidad” as marketing vs. lived identity • The (non-existent) unified “Latino vote” • Anti-intellectualism & gender gaps • From outrage to outcomes: what actually helps youth
Actionable takeaways:
Invest time/money in youth programs, test prep, and mentorship.
Attend your local community board—track where funds go and advocate for youth/education.
Start small, consistent conversations in real life (family tables, group chats, barbershops).
Books mentioned (great starters):
The Afro-Latin@ Reader • Latino Inc. (Arlene Dávila) • Making Hispanics (Cristina Mora) • Hopeful Girls, Troubled Boys (Nancy López)
Guest: Dominican sociology PhD researcher (IG/TikTok: @thatsplatanos)
Host asks: If this added value, drop a 5-star rating, comment your takeaways, and share with a friend who’ll push the convo forward.
Why it matters: ideas shape budgets, schools, and who gets seen/heard.
How to help: show up locally, fund youth and literacy, mentor, and keep the conversation going.
Resources: The Afro-Latin@ Reader • Latino Inc. • Making Hispanics • Hopeful Girls, Troubled Boys.
0:00 All right, we got a special guest in the building. My main man. Can I say real name? Actually, yeah, you can say my real name. 0:05 Okay. Cuz he came over here. He was like, "You can't say my name because I don't want people to come after me." That's true. That's true. Y'all be 0:11 annoying. Y'all be annoying. So, we we we met a week ago and uh I was 0:17 the the a Dominican man studying sociology to get his PhD right now. And I thought that was so cool. 0:23 I think sociologist is extremely important. And you know, I read a couple of books from sociologists, you know, 0:29 the Afro Latino reader and stuff like that, you know, but I was like, and we 0:34 don't hardly meet people that are Dominican that are our people and also studying this. So I was like, "Oh man, I 0:41 need to get to know this guy. I you need to come into the pod and you need to teach people what you've learned." So 0:47 I'm like, "We that's why you're here today." So I am glad that you are here 0:53 and blessing us. Class is in session. Go classes. I like that. You know, you find 0:59 them on Instagram. I love your name on Instagram. They get platanos. It's like a That's a a play on words. It took me a while. I'm 1:06 like It took me 24 hours to think about that. I had a couple names and I slept on it. I'm like, I know what it is. 1:12 It was a Yeah, it's a double tandra. Yeah. So, it's a plat 1:18 like platano platanos as elab. There you I think it's perfect. That 1:24 shit was great. It was great. It was great. Why didn't I think about that shit? You slacked. I fucked up. Now you took that shit from 1:31 me. I need to take it back. You know, there's someone else with that name on IG. And I was trying to hit him up to change his fucking name, but 1:38 you didn't respond that. What what what I love is is when you get on your social media, you always talk 1:44 about anti-intellectualism, right? Especially like that's why I'm like you need to come over here cuz when 1:50 we met he was just talking about like you know I I study sociology and I don't know if you remember like we were all 1:56 sitting down in the car right it was you know jazz black rose 2:02 you know uh my boy and you're asking us questions I'm like this guy's asking us questions about us about I'm like let me 2:08 ask him questions about him and you're like I study sociology I'm getting my PhD in sociology and I was like Bro, 2:16 you're the man I've been looking for. Right. You know what? I I think I'm just I'm a 2:21 Gemini moon and I I'm I'm very curious curious. I I love to learn about people's like life history and stories 2:27 and why they do things. Um partly why I I I pursued sociology as 2:32 a PhD cuz I had a lot of questions not just about people about like things that happen in society and things just never made sense to me. Like people would say, 2:38 "Well, it just it's like that because this is the way the world works." Yeah. And I'm like, "That makes no sense at 2:44 all." Yeah. And um which is a poor excuse for for things being a messed up way, but like this is 2:49 just the way it is. You know what I remember in I was majoring in Puerto Rican Latino studies at Brooklyn College and one of my 2:55 professors, she was talking about like racial hierarchies and I'm like, well, why are they racial hierarchies? Why are 3:01 they situated the way they are? Why are like our black folks situated at the bottom and then like um white people 3:06 situated at the top? Like what what what gave rise to that? And she was like, you know, it just is what it is, right? And 3:12 I'm like that wasn't that didn't satisfy me. Yeah. Yeah. Um why is that? I've been thinking about that. I'm like why why are the most 3:19 powerful people all over and this is all over the world like this hierarchy. Why is it like the white people on the 3:24 top and the black folks on the bottom and the mystisos are in the middle? Yeah, that's a you know, I think it'll 3:31 take a semester to take to to answer that question, but we got to think about like the impact of colonization, 3:38 imperialism, and how um Europeans when they came to the Western Hemisphere, conquered the 3:45 Caribbean, conquered North America, conquered South America, what we now call South America, North America, how 3:51 they also like um um just indoctrinated the people that in 3:56 ter in addition to committing genocide. Yeah. Um converting people to like Christianity forcibly, but just 4:02 indoctrinating people like in white supremist ideology and um 4:08 through religion and saying that and also like kind of uh 4:14 enforcing alsoation between the different racial groups, meaning like mixing races as a way to sort of like 4:21 for them to the cast system. Yes. The cast and and it turns out the cast system is not only Latin America. 4:26 like this is worldwide. Like India, even in India. Yeah, bro. I went to India and I remember I 4:32 saw a commercial and it was like this is a messed up. I was like I was like, "Oh, hell no." 4:38 Bro, I was sitting down, bro. And I was looking at this commercial and it was like this dark Indian guy and he was 4:44 like sad. And then a white Indian guy showed up in a motorcycle and he had two girls, 4:50 right? And he was like, "You know why you sad?" And the and the dark Indian guy is like, "Why?" And he was like, 4:55 "You need this cream." And it was a whitening scream skin cream. And then 5:00 they all start dancing and then he used the scream cream and he turned white and he's like and then he just left with the 5:07 in the motorcycle with two girls as well. I like bruh. Yeah. And also like India was conquered by the British too, right? So they also 5:14 imposed their white supremist ideology there. But I also want to say like when I think about India and Asia, they also had their own like sense of like I guess 5:21 I'm referring to East Asia specifically, there was also like colorism because um before like they were globalization, 5:27 before these ideas of white supremacy like penetrated those countries um in East Asia specifically 5:33 it was understood that people who were rich and wealthy um lived on like the more northern side and kind of like they 5:40 were lighter skinned, right? So that was associated with like more money whereas like people in the southern part of the 5:45 countries they often were farmers or just yeah farmer or just like people who were lower income were farmers and had these 5:51 sort of jobs which made their skin a bit darker, right? So they had that already they had already a maybe a system of like 5:58 colorism in place because of like just because the kind of jobs that people had because Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like 6:04 if you were darker skin that means that you were out in the field that means that you're some type of poor. Yeah. Yeah. And like white supremacy 6:09 just reinforce like those like division ideologies. I'll say that cuz you could even go to Asia and then 6:15 like when when you look at like anywhere like we talk about Indonesia or even Thailand like I remember going through 6:22 Thailand and I would look at the posters and the posters were like lighterkinned Thai people 6:27 like all the post all the models even like if you look at Turkish novellas Turkish novelas they only use white 6:33 blue-eyed Turkish folks. So I was like this is like hold on wait a minute you know and my mom loves watching these 6:39 turkeys and it's because they got blue eyesonito 6:46 and I'm like they just they just look blue to me. Yeah. Right. 6:51 And how you say these a lot of like messages they're messages they're signals that are very insiduous. 6:56 Insidious. Sorry. By insidious it means like they're so it's like subtle butt everywhere. So 7:03 imagine getting that messaging throughout your whole entire life like in every single space that you enter 7:09 schooling, media, uh, church, religion, all these different places. These message these 7:15 messages are there. And so like you unc subconsciously sort of start adopting that ideology. Oh, 7:21 like maybe like white is beautiful because that's what we see on television. That's what we want to that's also like aspiring. That's what 7:27 people start aspiring to whiteness too. whether or not they want to like date admit it to or not. You know, we see it 7:32 within our culture a lot. Like, you know, like even big podcast, yeah, you see men of color, but you don't see 7:37 women of color. Like, we're talking about and 70% of Dominicans are are Afro descendants, right? But then when you 7:44 look at major podcast like where are the black women? You see what I'm saying? You mean like for Dominican women? 7:50 For Dominican women, where are the black Dominican women? You you could you will see a darker Dominican man like on these higher 7:57 podcasts, right? But you will not see alongside like white or lighterkinned Dominican women. Yeah. Like like Yo Sarante Yo Sarante 8:06 the music phenomen Dominican women. Romeo Santos nothing 8:13 but white Dominican women. But where are where are the dark ones when we have so many black Dominican women all over the 8:20 place? And you know, you bring up a good point because like I want to bring up this Latin concept because often times 8:26 u a lot of Latinos they talk about us Latinos and they talk about like we need more Latino representation in media 8:33 and that kind of conversation gets me upset because I think it's like okay you have if you think about like Latin 8:39 American like uh media in general not just like that's um the US Latin America Latino but Latin 8:47 America media. Yeah. All you see are the white Latinos. are you see and is those same white Latinos 8:52 or even mestiso Latinos that are crying about Latino representation in US media 8:58 and most of the Latino representation in US media is mystisos or white lightkinned Latinos white yeah where the black Latinos where or the 9:04 indigenous Latinos black Latino it's like like if we don't exist it's like no exist it's so layered it's 9:10 like um yeah so so layered like there's like no black representation in Latino media no black Latina representation in 9:17 like just like in general globally Right. Yeah. Um and even there's not much Latino representation. So there's like it's 9:23 it's so multi-layered. Yeah. Because a lot of people complain about the United States of America, but 9:28 I'm like in Latin America is even worse because you could turn on the TV, you could watch movies in in United States 9:34 of America, you could go to the movie theater and you see black folks. Yeah. But if you go to Latin America, there's 9:40 like none of them. And that's a good that's an interesting point that you bring. One, I say like if you do turn on the TV, like who are the 9:46 darkkinned women playing? What roles? Right. Yeah, the maid, the servant, the person who gets killed off. 9:51 That's if they get high, right? Especially the woman, right? That's another thing. But there's it seems like what you're saying 9:57 and what I've noticed too, there's more avenues for like upward mobility in media for black people in the US. Not 10:04 saying it's hard, not saying it's not easy, it's definitely hard. Yeah. Yeah. But in Latin America, it's just very different. And I think there's more 10:10 barriers for black women there than there is like in the US, like North American context. And I'm not trying to 10:15 play any oppression Olympics for you. for me. But I think we got to keep it real. Like think about BAT. Think about 10:21 these other black platforms. That doesn't exist in Latin America. There's barely any black actors in Latin 10:27 American TV shows. Maybe that might be changing. EV probably has like one black Dominican or something like that. The Leundo just Yeah, because they probably get a whole 10:35 Let me do something. Why do you think that is though? Oh, 10:43 you have I mean at the end of the day is like misogyny and antilackness 10:48 and um that's at the root of it. I don't think it's that complicated. Yeah. Um and I think I know I know a lot of 10:56 Latinos, they'd be like, "Well, Afro Latin Americans, they're the 11:01 minority, so why should we even expect to see them on media and TV?" And that's a a such that's so racist. 11:09 That's a copout because it's a huge copout because we have more that what I what I've learned is that we have more Afro 11:14 Latinos, more slaves went into Latin America than what did in in United States of America. You know, I do think 11:21 that the segregation that happened in United States of America, the one drop rule was a thing that they had to create 11:28 something because it was so separated, right? like the whole one drop rule people had to come out like in the 60s 11:35 the James Brown had to come out with with I'm black and I'm proud and and in the 70s black women you know we're using 11:41 their their afro hair now that I think in the last what 10 years that's when 11:47 we've been using more of the Afro Latino no uh it's been more prominent it's 11:53 always been there but it's like it's been more prominent right we're seeing more people rocking their curls or 11:58 rocking the Afro Latinos rocking their Bro, that's a becoming a thing now and it's just like we're catching up with 12:05 the times, right? Yeah. So, I have two things to say about that. I say one thing is that um to 12:10 answer your question like why is that? I think the Latino piece is I think Latin is a business first and foremost. 12:18 Uh there's a book called Latino Inc. by Arlene Davila that talks about how Latin is a multi-billion dollar business. 12:25 Um she's anthropologist. Great book. But uh the reason why I bring that up is 12:30 because there's a particular image in the US that's promoted um as like the 12:36 Latino or the Latina image. Like we have an idea. Like if you pick out anybody from the US randomly and you ask them 12:43 describe a Latino person to you to me, they'll never say black. No, they'll probably say light-skinned or 12:48 indigenous or something like that with straight hair or whatever from Mexico. And um 12:54 that's the image that most people in the US have about who Latino is, right? And there's a lot of money put into like 12:59 sort of creating this idea of Latin. And the reason why people have that image because in the US there's like this racial hierarchy and these different 13:05 categories that people associate with different people. Like people have an idea of who black is. People have idea who Asian is, right? For instance, like 13:12 um a South Asians Indian people are South Asians, right? But they're often like erased from like this Asian identity and 13:17 you mostly see like East Asian representation, meaning Korea, Japan and also the at the exclusion of Southeast 13:24 Asian people meaning like uh uh Vietnamese people, Laos people, Cambodian people often raced 13:29 Indonesian um right so people also often have an image of people of of of who belongs to 13:34 each racial category and that's marketable right that's marketable so and and marketers and all these companies they 13:40 reinforce those ideas right through media and all that stuff because it's easy to digest in many cases easy to digest but often 13:47 times that comes at at the expense of black people or darker skin people in these like different groups, right? Afro 13:52 Latinas or just like darkerkinned Asians, um South Asian, so many different things. And um I forgot the second point I was, 14:00 but why uh uh uh you said you were talking about why all of them are this is a 14:07 business. Latino is a business because this is what they're trying to represent us. You know what I mean? So, but I do 14:14 feel that because when I was in LA, right, and I was like, you know, auditioning for Latino roles, but all 14:19 the Latino roles were Mexican, right? And then they looked at me, they're like, "This guy's Latino. He has a Latino name." But we're like, "We 14:25 don't know where to put this guy." Right? And one person that you make me think about is like like I don't know if 14:31 you seen Kasa de Famoso and we had uh a Dominican guy in there. 14:36 I don't know if you heard about it. U Caramelo maybe. Maybe by face. Go ahead. Caramelo 14:42 and he was so Dominican, bro. I think he was the only dark dude in Castello Famoso, but he was so genuinely 14:50 Dominican, unapologetic. He was authentic that that people went crazy 14:56 over. He won the deamosoto. Like he was 15:01 Oh, yes. Yes, I know what you mean. Yes. He was just like straight up like he the UPS dude. The UPS dude. 15:08 The UPS dude. He was very charismatic. very charismatic and and he won because he 15:13 was truly himself. He he he would did not appeal he did not do 15:18 he was not like everybody else. I also think about Amaya Papaya from Love Island. Amaya Papaya. 15:24 Is it Love Island? What is that show? Um I think it was Love Island. Love Island. Yes, Love Island. That's where they brought all the the Dominicans and then that 15:30 candy guy and all this extra stuff, you know. But now I remember what I was going to 15:35 say about like Latin America. So the second point I was going to say is that like um and the the creative diaspora 15:42 dash who's panameanian talks about this often and how like uh segregation, 15:48 racial discrimination um in Latin America is like often like 15:53 viewed as something that's cultural or just like the racial of blackness like well it's not really like the US because 15:59 like there was like legal sanctioned which kind of is a copout bullshit but like she was trying to say that um 16:05 racial discrim disccrimination, segregation, and all of these like systems of oppression are kind of just like um 16:14 thought of like these are just cultural things in our in our society. And they really take out the systemic piece from 16:20 it. Mhm. As a way to sort of like obscure like the fact that this is like an 16:25 intentional thing that's been going on historically throughout time to sort of like erase black people, erase 16:31 indigenous people. Yeah. um and portray a certain image of what Latin America is and who is a Latin American person and I'm kind of 16:37 butchering what what they were saying or what they say often but I just wanted to bring that point in. Yeah. So so so it's like do you think 16:42 that you know a lot of times our people will say stuff like oh we are all mixed. Do you think that's also part of the 16:48 eraser of black folks? Yeah. Messi sah is a racial project um is an intentional racial project uh by a 16:56 lot of like state government and like Latin American elites. Mhm. And what it did if it functions to um 17:04 messy sahi is always in relation to the US. I think about it. Um the reason why messy sah is a thing because in the US I 17:11 think this is the way like Latin America tries to distinguish itself from the US where there's like very overt racial 17:16 discrimination and there's like segregation racial segregation. Whereas Latin America they like they kind of 17:22 like try to um assert some sort of moral superiority like look how racially mixed we are. 17:27 We're not ghetto like the US. we all mixed which is bullshit right cuz there is like segregation think about the 17:33 neighborhood level there is racial discrimination but it just looks different right um and it looks different in what way 17:40 uh I think like you don't there was uh enslavement but there wasn't necessarily 17:45 like child slavery like there was in the US right there wasn't like no necessarily Jim Crow there wasn't no de these de facto laws that was inscribed 17:54 in I'm not saying all of America I'm sure there wasn't many Latin American countries but it was more informal. 18:00 There's a lot of informal like segregation that was enforced socially, 18:06 right? So, who cares if legally it didn't matter, right? So, I'll say this, it goes back to me Messi sah and messy 18:12 operated to um it's kind of to disguise like to hide to obscure the racism and 18:17 segregation and discrimination and equality that was actually existing in Latin America. Um why? Because one thing 18:23 they'll use like well we're all racially mixed. We can't be racist. like there's like so much still to this day they use that which is 18:31 a copout which is a copout right is to avoid accountability and to avoid like scrutiny and to avoid responsibility 18:39 um and I I want to say the re the way it works in courts right because I think 18:44 about the Dominican case I used to do a lot of research in the Dominican Republic and there are a lot of Haitian laborers who can even use like the 18:50 courts as a as an avenue for like legal recourse for grievances regarding like 18:56 um racial discrimination in the workplace. Maybe like their employer didn't um uh 19:05 or withhold withheld wages because they're like wow whatever like we're going to deport you anyway. So, 19:11 and many a lot of like xenophobic racist stuff like they encounter a lot of racism in DR, xenophobia, 19:17 but it's hard for them to like access any legal recourse through the courts because the courts immediately say, "Well, this is not a racist country, so 19:23 what are you saying that this is because of racial discrimination?" So, so doesn't exist. So, it doesn't exist. So, even in 19:29 courts, they go like, "Oh, it doesn't exist here." exist because 19:35 regular conversation like you could talk to 19:40 racist immediately and you're like oh man I I just and you don't want to say anything because if you say anything 19:45 then so even I just pull myself back when I 19:52 hear all these racist stuff I put my cuz I was like I remember going to Dominican Republic and I'm like I'm calling out people I got tired of calling out people 19:59 even journalists like people And you'll see black folks like being racist. 20:05 Eura has some like black folks like dark Dominican people being racist versus 20:10 black folks, right? And then when you talk to a lighter Dominican, they will say, "But the 20:17 blacker ones are more racist." Like, you ever had that excuse used on you like, "Yo, the black folks will be more racist 20:24 than the white folks." You ever heard of that? I've heard of that and it makes sense. like um I think about a few things. I 20:30 think about I I know of people who have gone to DR and also heard stories and this is just like not anecdotal meaning 20:36 this oneoff. No, I heard that so I heard this story so many times of let's say like u black people, 20:42 Dominican and like non- Dominican black people go to DR and try to get into a club. They might have like natural hair out or they're froze or they have locks 20:48 and they wouldn't be and the bouncer who's often like darker than them, right? Hair kinkier than them. 20:54 Yeah. Yeah. Would be like, "Nah, you can't get in." and it's because of their hair or because like their skin color or something like that. So, it's like 21:01 it's wild, right? It's wild. And that's how and let's go back to how like this that that is systemic racism, right? Cuz 21:07 like these ideas are embedded in law, in culture, institutions, in the courts, right, which prevent Haitians and and 21:14 dark-kinned Dominicans from like accessing any justice on the grounds of like racial discrimination and stuff like that. And 21:20 I also think about recently, not recent, in 2019, the a director of education of the Dominican Republic was fired because 21:28 she released like a public uh um she she uh uh did a campaign, an educational 21:36 campaign like for youth in the country to kind of like uh to destigmatize 21:41 afroexture hair, to destigmatize blackness. And in the commercial it was 21:46 like uh students uh just saying like I love my hair. I love my like my natural hair. Whether it was like braids, froze 21:53 and all that stuff. It was beautiful. And I think like with less than a week she was fired from her job. What? 21:59 Yes. No. Yes. This happened in 2019. In 2019. In 2019. That's not that far away. 22:04 That's not that far away. So that's And you can't like there's so many instances of like it's layered. 22:10 It's so layered. It's so layered. And that's how you know racism is systemic. Yeah. in the DR. How can how can you change it? Because 22:16 like it's like everybody's indoctrinated like everybody is everybody is like is 22:22 responsible in different ways, right? Different levels of responsibility, right? Um and everybody is like contributing to 22:29 that. I got a question for you. Like, you know, we talked about this earlier and and I've gotten this before and 22:34 there's certain, you know, people from our people that they hear these things and they feel offended and they're like, 22:41 oh, you know, instead of facing, you know, this is a a reality that's 22:46 happening, right? And it's a global in a global scale, but we see more prominent within our culture. You know, these 22:53 people that get so offended that they they even want to resort to violence cuz I'm pretty sure you've been threatened 22:58 or right cuz I've been threatened. Oh, 23:04 all this stuff like why is it these people instead of saying like, "Yo, this is happening. It's true. I see what 23:11 you're saying." why they are so offended by by the things that we're talking 23:16 about today. Uh I think it's difficult for people to 23:22 separate like critique of culture, critique of the of of the government practices from who they are. 23:30 And I think they see a critique of like the the women government or the practices or like the practices of the 23:36 Dominican government like in Sujo as an extension of who they are. M. So if you critique that, they're like, 23:42 "Oh, you're saying I'm a bad person." And I think it's difficult for them to reconcile that. Like you could love 23:48 being Dominican. You could love where you come from, but also like holding your government and their practices accountable and be like, "We could do 23:53 better." And the reason why I'm calling y'all because I know we could do better because there's actually people on the ground who don't believe all these 23:59 things. So I do I also want to like say like there are like a lot of like afro descendant anti-racist groups in the 24:05 country who are doing great work and they need a lot of our support. Um, so I think it goes is is I think that that's 24:11 partly it. Um, that they kind of can separate critiques from of like the 24:16 state practices or the government um to themselves. So they they take it very 24:22 personal and I think they've been socialized indoctrinated to view but and also it 24:27 works in favor of the state. The state I mean the government, right? Yeah. Because then those people do the work of 24:32 the state meaning they help justify what the state justify what they're doing. Exactly 24:38 right. Do you think that these people that that against that also benefit from it as well at the same time? Um, do you think 24:45 that because sometimes I think about like well like why are you so angry if somebody's saying like yo you know what 24:51 like saying belo is not a good thing or or saying somebody right like saying 24:57 this is wrong like right but they're they're offended they I wonder if there's some part of them because 25:04 they're they definitely they probably even use the terminology right because we hear it all the time. 25:15 Like, you don't know. I'm pretty sure you hear that shit like five times a fucking day. You know, I think these 25:20 people already talk like this. And I'm like, I think in their mind they're like, "Oh, wait. So, you're telling me 25:27 that I got like black people now?" Right? That's You see what I'm saying? I wonder if are we 25:34 um are we interrupting their reality? right? In the sense that like hold on, 25:40 wait a minute. Are you trying to say that I need to start, you know, liking 25:45 black folks or dating black folks or like I wonder if that is something 25:51 that that's what's truly bothering them, right? Cuz I'm like, why are you so mad and so angry that you want to be like, 25:57 you know what, I'mma beat your ass or I can't believe you're talking bad this way, bad, but you don't want to face the 26:05 reality of what's going on around us. I would like to say that a lot of 26:12 Dominicans and I think a lot of like oppressed people, they all have wounds. 26:17 Wounds from colonialism, wounds from imperialism, wounds from all that. But many of them don't know that they have 26:23 those wounds. They don't even know that they're bleeding to quote a lo. Um, 26:30 so I what I when I hear what you're saying and I when I hear people say that as well, I think like it's a fear of 26:38 them to confront that contradiction. I think a lot of them un maybe not all 26:45 but I think deep down they might they might not even know that they're hurting. They 26:51 might even know they have a wound, but it's there and it's creating this like kind of reaction of what you're saying. 26:56 So, is it is the wound like like um selfhate or the wound is like selfhate, right? 27:01 Especially for like for the darker skinned Dominicans. The wound is like u misogyny. The wound is like 27:09 just being stripped of like the wound that colonialism did to like 27:16 Dominicans, right? And I think it just like kept piling piling up, piling up, piling up. 27:21 Um, and that's the first thing I think about like Dominicans have like these wounds that and they have the wound they 27:27 may not be aware that they have a wound and they're even bleeding from that. They they have a pain from they have a pain and um 27:35 I think and that but uh I want to go back to what I was saying about the state and 27:40 um that that idea of like um oh is it 27:46 interrupting like do you want me to like black people now? I think that's kind also like the state like speaking through them. It's not necessarily them. 27:52 I think it's the state and their indoctrination and the socialization speaking through them. Mhm. Um, and I think there's a lot of 27:58 contradictions that I think they're kind of internally grappling with, but it's 28:04 just easy to sort of just go with what you know and what you've been taught and learned. Yeah. Because you it's like you already 28:10 have this paradigm that you grew up with. Yes. And then we're we're challenging that paradigm that you're used to. 28:16 And it's harder and there's another layer to this. It's harder to sort of go against that, especially if you're a brazen environment where anything in 28:24 opposition to that paradigm will be punished. You'll be attacked. You'll be ostracized. So, I think at the root of 28:31 it too is belonging, a need for belonging. And it's and it sucks that like there's there is like bonding and community 28:37 building and Dominican national identity is at the root is rooted in anti-blackness, 28:43 contemporary Dominican national identity, but that's not all it is. Mhm. But unfortunately that is part of it right that is how like 28:51 it does generate like sort of sense of belonging community unfortunately right and 28:56 what why what do we see it more prominent within our culture compared to what 29:01 I I feel like we I I see I feel like I see it more within our culture than even 29:07 compared to Mexicans and compared to everybody else that I've ever met. you know, even, you know, like I've never 29:14 sat down with a Mexican family or a Salvadorian family and it and it immediately all these antilack things 29:21 are said, you know, but when I'm around my people, it's immediately like, bro, 29:28 like, and it's it's so normalized that we could all be hanging out, we had a good conversation, we we just ate and 29:35 then boom. You see what I'm saying? So, and it's and it's not like, oh, it's overt. It's 29:42 not like it's overt. It's just subtle. It's it's so subtle because it's so common. 29:49 Yeah. Uh, and I'm pretty sure you experience it and you hear it all the time. You hear all the time and you're and you and I 29:56 stay I'm pretty sure you stay quiet a lot of times. You're like sometimes you want to protect your piece. It depends on the situation, the 30:02 context, but continue. I'll go on. So why why is it 30:08 I want to say one thing before I answer I want to say that I I think in terms of measuring what 30:14 society's more racist is hard. I don't know what what what's your measure is it like who says who the number of 30:21 anti-black things one person says at a day. I have no idea that's a good measure. Maybe like for instance I I'm not I'm 30:26 not in Mexican communities all the time. I'm not I don't live in Mexico. I'm not I don't know what goes on dayto day 30:33 there. Yeah. It could be that I would say that in Mexican census like there definitely is anti-blackness. Well, in Mexico 30:39 because like it it took until like 2020 that they started collecting data on No, 2015 30:45 on Afro descendants on Afro descendants. Yeah. So recently, right? And this was like years of mobilization. It wasn't 30:51 like the census. All right. Um let's collect data. No, activists have been demanding that for decades, 30:57 but there there's a lot of resistance. It could be that maybe like the racism there is not as loud, 31:03 right? So this is a but maybe not I don't know but I wanted to talk about the Dominican piece and I think it is 31:09 unique. It is unique how it manifests and it surfaces. I think one big thing is that like it's that it shares a 31:16 island um with Haiti, right? Another black country that is 31:21 perceived as blacker or darker. And I think because they share a light 31:28 with another country that is black, it reinforces 31:33 their sense of racial superiority. I think it's because being in the 31:38 island. Yes. And I think we were talking about this before, but 31:44 if DR was situated next to Colombia, if DR was situated next to Argentina, if 31:50 DR was situated next to Mexico, they would not be acting like that. M 31:55 they will be the most revolutionary. Yeah. The most like anti-racist anti-ra country. 32:02 Yeah. In Latin American western hemisphere. That's true. And I think geography kind of plays a 32:08 role in that. And also just like because they they situated next to sort of a black um another black country and 32:16 they're so much more so layered. But I think that's a a big reason. That's true because I if you think about it like 32:22 like because we still suffer from it as Dominicans because I'm like we created Meren 32:27 but why why are Puerto Ricans on the forefront of Meren is our music why we have up there 32:35 why we have Elo everywhere you go so I'm like bro Elo doesn't even touch Anton 32:42 Santo you see what I'm saying yeah yeah like why are people dominating our genre 32:48 that it comes from us, you know, and I think that's a problem of Latina. That's not a problem because 32:53 I also see it for Puerto Ricans, too, where like is known to be Puerto Rican, but now you have Colombians, now you have Mexicans, 32:59 now you have all these other countries saying that they also do reto. Is it reto in the room with us now? I 33:06 have no know like I Yeah. Yeah. But that that's also strange and it's frustrating me because I think what Latin does is like it takes certain 33:12 elements of like certain cultures within Latin America and the Caribbean and then uplifts it and say this is now Latino 33:20 and oftent times the people who uplift it well it uplift and sort of spreads everywhere like Mexico think about 33:25 thinking about right now Colombians are claiming ownership over no shame to my Colombians like y'all like a lot of y'all 33:32 but it's just weird that like there's an eraser happening about where the origins were and I think what that what's 33:37 important ern about that is that not came from Panama. We gota we got well yeah Spanish ree there's the 33:44 genealogy um then Jamaica then Panama right then like there's like that that I'm not 33:51 definitely want to recognize that. Yeah. Yeah. Um but I think like what Latin does is 33:56 like erases the origin the origin of like where the music came from and often 34:02 times the origin of where the music came from. Think about Bachata. Think about Meren. Think about Reon. All these 34:08 different things. Bachata. Kumbia. Kumbia. These are heavily influenced. I would 34:14 say they're black. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These are black genres. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But then you have like these 34:19 light-skinned mystos, white people, not even from the countries where they from now like uh being represented as the 34:27 people who do this kind of music, which is cultural genocide. 34:32 Yeah. Yeah. Which is it hurts me. It hurts me. Which is why I don't like mess with Latin. Like I don't I'm very specific about 34:38 what I mean when I'm like talking about Latin America. I'm like I mean this group. I mean this group. Who do you mean? And I challenge everybody here listening 34:44 to you when people talk about Latino whatever. Even Latino intellectualism. Ask them who do you mean? 34:50 I got to go. Yeah. That's my question because you came over here like, "Yo, I'm against the the the term Latino. Why is that?" 34:56 I think it's because of that. I think like it's um it's eraser. I think 35:02 there's they try to group more than 30 40 plus countries into one identity. 35:10 I'll say this like this is like um um this this this this 35:16 uh idea that many scholars Latino scholars are kind of dealing with grappling with. It's none of my business 35:21 because I I just don't care. But I this is something that's happening. They're always saying like wow um the Latino 35:27 vote they talk about this Latino vote, Latino vote, Latino vote, right? when is it going to like uh come when is the 35:32 Latino vote going to actually move and make make make an impact, right? And that's the assumption that like 35:39 there is a Latino vote and it goes back to we're talking about how like there's a lot of Latino Trump supporters, it's a 35:45 Latino conservatives, a lot of Latino this and that. Yeah. Yeah. This is not like lat Latinos in the US 35:50 maybe it is it's not too different from um people in Latin America. These people 35:56 left Latin America to come to US but they brought a lot of their ideas. Yeah. Yeah. They brought a lot of their traditions, 36:01 a lot of different things, right? And it's they're not starting a brand new slate when they come to the US, 36:08 Latin America, they do have a lot of right-wing conservatives, right? They do have a lot of extremists. They do have a 36:13 lot of white supremacists and a lot of those people came, right? A lot of those people were already indoctrinated with those 36:18 ideologies and they crossed the border. Yeah. Yeah. Or even the ocean. Like you say, Cubans, Cubans are the ones that 36:24 the rightwing was the one that that fled. You're like, "Okay, baby. There was never ever a fucking Lat 36:30 Latino voting block. I don't What do you That's myth. You think so? That is a myth. I think there's an 36:35 assumption that Latinos should all be united and all that stuff because like they're an oppressed group in the US. Yeah. Because right now, like there's a 36:40 right now, especially with this administration. We seeing like a major attack on Latin. Yes. Yeah. And and for them, they don't give 36:47 a damn. They have no sympathy. They don't care if you voted. They don't give care if you voted for Trump. Like they 36:53 even taking down Latinos citizens. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. So, so you know, damn, I lost my train 37:00 of thought where I was going is about like how like there might be actually Latino sort of consciousness. 37:06 Yeah. So, so and then with 50% of Latinos like voted for for Trump even 37:12 though like this man wasn't. So if there is there is something against us even though this group Latino they say that 37:18 there is supposedly Americanmade that term right to and it could be like oh 37:24 this is a way of othering uh this group of people from us 37:29 right from United States of America Americans whatever you want to call it right but um 37:35 I just feel that it's like yeah it it sucks because yes you you're 37:41 right we're not a monolith There is a difference within Latin but group there's a big group of people that 37:48 has so many differences and we're saying all these people are just one right but I think what groups us 37:54 together is language as human beings language you know if you think about like language like when it came to the 37:59 apartheid in in South Africa how did they they separated people through their language like no you speak this you're 38:06 that you speak this you're that yeah I think like I'm not too concerned 38:12 about Latino Latino consciousness because there's so many contradictions in that and I don't think it'll ever be a thing. For instance, like you 38:17 mentioned like there's a lot of ice rays and all that stuff that impacting the Latino community. Um there's some people 38:23 who are impact who are you? No. The reason why Latino Yeah. because some Latinos are impact impacted more 38:28 than others, right? So what country are they from? Like which Latinos has has the most undocumented. Not all Latinos 38:33 are undocumented, right? They have they have different histories of coming into the US or being US citizens and that's going to impact how they view politics, 38:39 how they view certain like actions from the government. Yeah. Um, and there's also like colorism, there's also racism, right? So 38:46 maybe if even if like we there is a collective consciousness that that develops around like um immigration 38:53 stuff, but I don't think we're all going to be actively or just like similarly like invested in that because we don't 38:58 we're not similarly impacted by it. Mhm. And there's also like internal divisions like racism, colorism, internal 39:04 division, racism, colorism, and all that stuff that's um um preventing alliances 39:09 from actually happening within the within the group. I'm more interested in alliances um for housing justice. I'm more 39:16 interested in alliances for immigration justice. I'm more interested in alliances for like labor justice, 39:21 environmental justice. Let's mo let's mobilize around that. I don't care about like mobilizing around Latinas, 39:26 something that was like manu manufactured and fabricated in the US and it's and it is a market, right? It is a market. It is a billion dollar 39:32 market and it was created and it was re reinforced and created for that purpose. And if you look at making Hispanic by Christina Mora, she talks she talks 39:40 about like how it was created and for what purpose. What was the role of uni? What was the role of marketers? What was the role of these different like 39:45 political officials during the 70s and 80s? Um, yes, people probably do feel like 39:51 really like a sense of Latin, whatever that means. It might be different for anybody. I'm not going to deny that. But I think like 39:56 if you really I kind of want to stay away from me personally my life um like hoping that there's like a 40:03 Latino consciousness fmenting because I think it's like fragile. I think it's um 40:08 it's it's it's it's not sustaining. And I think what's more sustaining is like focusing on actual issues like 40:14 anti-racism or racism um immigrant immigration justice or immigrant justice or housing justice. 40:19 Yeah. because you're saying in a way what what I'm getting from you is 40:25 that going going down that route it it disenfranchises certain subgroups of 40:30 people within Latin America right so it's like it's like we're saying all of us are Latino we got to you know we got 40:36 to help out everybody it's like putting water in every house and not every house is burning in a way and I want to say an 40:41 example there was a recent um uh debate in 2020 to 2022 some of the 40:48 20s around census uh and the Latino category in the census. 40:54 They wanted to um make the Latino category 40:59 Latino Hispanic category a race. Yeah. It's not like that now. That was before it was like pick your race, black, 41:05 white, whatever. And then are you Latino, Hispanic? Now they want to just put like Hispanic 41:12 Latino with the other racial groups, right? So pick one. Um, and a lot of Afro Latinos were upset about that, 41:21 right? A lot of Afroinos were upset about that because they were like, "Wait, y'all going to erase Aphro Latinos, 41:26 right? Because they're just going to pick if you put like Latino, Hispanic next to like the black option or next to the 41:33 white option, you're telling the group that these are distinct categories, so you have to pick one." 41:39 So therefore, even if you're black, Latino, I'm Hispanic, Latino, whatever. So there's not going to be enough black Latino data, right? a lot of like the 41:46 non-black Latinos and mystisos were for it. They were like, "Yep, this is us. This is yep, we 41:52 want it. We want it." Right? So, I think that's just like emblematic of 41:59 like why Latin is so fraught and why I don't have much 42:05 faith in it actually becoming this like movement that we could have mobilized around, 42:11 right? But there's there's something that makes us uh unique, right? You know, like our music, you know, like I 42:18 But whose music? You know whose music? Say it. Caribbean. Caribbean. It's not Latin. It's Caribbean. And 42:25 that's what I mean. It's not Baby, I'm not listening. And yo, y music is beautiful. Like, 42:31 let's talk about Brazil. I don't Okay, I'm not listening to funk every day. Is cute, right? But it's cute. And it also 42:36 has afro descends up. Also, I'm not listening to coridos every barely. I'm not pumping gorillas, 42:42 right? I'm listening to me bachata um salsa reong here and there which is 42:48 very Caribbean, right? But we also grew up listening to Mexican music like the Maria elders, 42:55 right? You know, baladas. We grew up on Jose Fernandez. So, so it's like they 43:00 also impacted our culture. We grew up listening to Colombian salsa. That's fair. You see what I'm saying? and even 43:06 Peruvians, Venezuelans, Venezuelans grew up listening to me. So 43:13 there there is this that like especially musically, culturally, musically that 43:19 that brings Latinos together like we have this certain level of understanding. You see what I'm saying? 43:25 I think my question is like what makes it different from and this is a general question. What makes it different from like us and like 43:31 non-Latino Caribbeans? Why should we be more invested in like unity with 43:37 non-Caribbean Latinos than like um I I don't think we should 43:42 Latino Caribbean. Yeah. But yeah, that that's like that's my Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't think we shouldn't because I think we have so 43:48 much the same thing as with Caribbeans like with Jamaicans, you know, especially like we have so much in 43:54 common with Jamaica. I think Dominicans are relate more to Jamaicans than than the rest of Latin America. 44:01 A a Dominican meets a Puerto Rican. When I meet a Puerto Rican, I feel like I met a Dominican. 44:06 I I don't Yeah. Like brother and sister. It's like It's like PR. Yeah. Brother and sister. 44:12 Brother and sister. They eat the same shit we do. I meet a a Cuban. We're like we're so like You see what I'm saying? 44:17 Like meeting the Caribbean like wow. But I think a lot of times what uniites us a 44:22 lot is is the language where we are. We also grew up we also grew up being impacted by each other like they Okay. 44:30 Everybody else grew up listening to me salsa, but we also grew up watching these Mexican novellas and these right 44:36 that that has a cultural impacts on us that we grew up watching. 44:42 You see what I'm saying? Amigas, Lucarita. Yeah. 44:48 Sabadoe. Yeah. Yeah. He's Chilean. Turns out he's not he's more German. 44:54 Yeah. But that's also like Latin American media, right? That's which promotes a certain like who you see in Latin 45:00 American media and what accent having what accents are being sort of like prioritized there like and what then you 45:06 you creating a hierarchy there right so like I get we're being exposed to it but it's we're being exposed to it because there's a hijgemony there in the Latin 45:12 American market and what kind of media we're able to consume. Um, I just think like I agree with you. I think there are 45:17 like because of these influences. Yeah, we there is some there's commonalities sometimes. I think it's just like 45:23 overemphasized and I think there's other things that we should be like more concerned around more or it'll be more productive to organize and like mobilize 45:30 around other stuff like housing and all that stuff and um and it go begs the question and the 45:36 reason why cuz like even the data shows like there is no like Latino voting block. There is, and I'm using the Latino voting block as a measure of like 45:42 consciousness like this is how we're that's how it's like people measure consciousness, right? Are these people sort of aligned? 45:48 Mhm. And there hasn't been a moment in history where that's been the case. That is true. That's something that's 45:55 been bothering me. Like I'm trying to figure that out like like okay people always talk about I think they they 46:01 group us together like okay the voting block of Latin but there is no measure. 46:08 There's no like right we don't stand in one place. You see what I'm saying? 46:14 Yeah. Like there was a lot of like this last administration there was a lot of negative propaganda 46:19 against Latinos and Latinos were for it. And we're talking about 50% Latino men 46:26 voted for it. Yeah. And none of them and none of them was like, yo, they they and they will show 46:32 like um immigrants and they were calling them illegal immigrants on purpose at all 46:39 times. These criminals and rapists always immigrants illegal all used in 46:45 one context purposely to brainwash these people. There was a dude that he's a Trump 46:51 supporter that he he was taken by ICE and he's like he was thrown off. He was 46:57 like, "I was brainwashed." She was like, "I can't believe like I voted for this for me for him to be they took him down. 47:04 Like they they took away his rights." And he was like, "Yo, I'm an American citizen." And and Ice was like, "No, 47:09 you're not, bro. You're not you're not an American citizen, brother. He was a he was a citizen." 47:15 And they took him in and he was like, "I can't believe my rights were violated." Like, "But you you otherred yourself 47:23 from saying seeing Oh, no. They're talking about illegal immigrants, but I'm like the what they're portraying on 47:28 screen for everybody else that's not that does not look like you, they're looking at you, too. 47:35 Or if they're not immediately, you're coming. You're going to be next. You're going to be next. You're going to be next. And that another thing that I have an 47:42 issue with is like you see all these Latinos. I was talking to a Dominican woman in in Kida and and she was like, 47:48 you know, I'm excited that Trump is going to be president. This girl couldn't even speak any English, bro. her English was messed up. And I was 47:55 like, "Okay, why?" And she was like, "And I'm I'm open-minded." I'm like, you know, I I consider myself an 48:01 independent. I'm not left nor right. You see what I'm saying? I k myself away cuz I don't like this tribal mentality. Like 48:08 if I'm getting brainwashed by somebody, I want to know. Then I'm going to challenge that. And I'm not going to be dying for the 48:15 Democratic party or nor the the especially not, you know, the Republican party, 48:21 you know, cuz I voted Republican before, you know, uh and I vote and I vote, 48:26 you know, left before, you know what I'm saying? And I'm sitting there and I'm talking to her and she goes like, "Did you see the 48:33 inauguration speech that Trump gave? It was so great." And I was like, "No, I didn't. A matter of fact, I didn't even 48:38 see it." She's like, "You need to watch it. That's why, you know, you you don't have any faith in Trump. You're all 48:44 right, I'll watch it. And and I'm watching it. And in in his uh speech, he 48:50 says that we're going to activate the Aliens Enemies Act. And I'm like, she heard the same speech 49:00 I heard. And for her, this speech was great. But what she didn't know that 49:05 within that speech, he was talking about us. 49:11 Because the Aliens Enemies Act, if people don't understand history, they 49:17 gathered Japanese citizens. 23 of the people that 49:23 were put in those internment camps were citizens. So much so that the 49:30 government had to pay them back. They gave them uh what is it? Reparations. Reparations. 49:36 72 got reparations. twothirds were citizens. And I heard 49:41 that and this man said in his speech and she heard the same speech and she was like 49:47 and I was like we're fucked. Why do you think that is? Why do you 49:53 think that they're Dominican Trump supporters? I think I think uh there was chaos that 49:58 was that happened here in in New York, you know, that was caused by these 50:04 Republican governors which Greg Abbott and uh with the Ronda Santis. They 50:10 gather all these Venezuelans to send them into, you know, democratically led 50:15 cities without engaging with their government and they sent bus loads of immigrants to create chaos. And it 50:22 worked. They became the saviors of the chaos that they created. The thing about the chaos too and it's 50:28 interesting um and I know uh oftentimes crime and chaos 50:35 is used to push particular initiatives and policy initiatives or laws or certain 50:42 candidates. But if you look at especially in New York City, if you look at the crime statistics, 50:48 crime has been going down for the past 30 years. Yes. Yes. And I'm not saying that there isn't 50:55 crime. I'm not saying that maybe there crime in immigr immigrant crime specifically have spiked. I don't even 51:01 know there's data on that, right? Has spiked. I have no idea. But what we the data tells us crime has gone down. 51:08 What we do know Yeah. is that they are even as crime has gone down has 51:14 decreased. Yeah. Yeah. There's been a consistent sensationalization of crime of chaos 51:19 happening in New York City. That's true. oftentimes the people who are um 51:25 accused of creating that crime might change, right? Black people one point, immigrants at another, right? They use 51:30 different scapegoats. Yeah. Yes. They were used as scapegoats because if you look at the data, you see 51:35 an influx of immigrants coming in, but you see a downturn in crime. A downturn in crime. And before y'all be 51:41 like, well, I was jumped by a Venezuelan. I'm not talking about that one anecdote. I'm not saying that. And those are And those are isolated in incidents. And 51:48 they do happen. They do happen. Those are isolated incidents. But you we have to look at data whether is there 51:54 upturn or a downturn and and that's like al politics in the US, right? Often use fear 51:59 in order to sway people one way, right? Fear. You want to make people feel 52:05 insecure. You want to make people feel like they need someone to save them. Yeah. And in come Trump, in come other people, 52:11 right? But she did a great job in in in in casting fear within his voters and his 52:16 base. And also like when you run media, you're able to put out whatever the hell you want. I also Yes, that too. That too 52:23 propaganda. I also want to say Dominicans are very conservative, right? So the reason why Trump just the Republican sort of thing, 52:30 his campaign um was really like grounded in Christian values. He was pro promoting Christian 52:36 values. At least his team administration was. And that aligns with a lot of Dominicans too. So and also the LGBTQA stuff. 52:42 Oh yeah, there was a lot of negative propaganda on on trans people. It's multi-layered. It's not just one thing, 52:48 but I was just wanted to mention the crime stuff, but there's im there's uh the religion piece, there's a LGBTQ 52:54 piece, um so many different things. And yeah, Dominicans are conservative. We can't 53:00 forget that. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. I was more surprised when I came over here because coming from LA, like in LA, 53:06 like, okay, LA is not like that. But I came to New York, I was like, oh my god. I even even undocumented Dominicans were 53:14 like so pro Trump. I'm like, and maybe like maybe it's a good 53:20 opportunity to talk about anti-intellectualism. Yeah. And um yeah, you were talking you were talking 53:26 about anti-intellectualism like like what's going on with that? Why why it's such a prominent conversation now and 53:32 what's going on? Are we seeing like a downturn on literacy and how is it impacting our community? 53:39 Yeah, the downturn on literacy that that's interesting. I actually got to see the date if there's actual downturn on it. But I know that like in the US 53:45 like on average people read on a sixth grade middle school level. Let's say that 53:51 sixth grade level like 54 like 54%. Um I got to check that fact. But um but 53:57 many people read on a sixth grade level. And uh there's a discourse specifically about like Latino anti-intellectualism. 54:04 Mhm. And a lot of people were saying like, I don't understand why there's like an aversion to intellectualism in the 54:10 Latino community. And I think by intellectualism they referring to like pursuing higher education or and engaging in like progressive like 54:17 liberal thought, that kind of discourse and that apparently men have more of an aversion 54:23 against they have an aversion towards that of that, right? Why is that? Um why do you think before I answer? 54:30 I don't know. That's why you here. Yeah. Yeah. But I will say I think there's one thing that I I want to focus 54:37 on. I think like there is a gender gap between Latino women, Latino men. And I also want to say I want to be careful by 54:42 saying Latino men, Latino women, whatever. Even using Latino in this thing because there's distinct experiences 54:48 within like Latino subgroups like Dominicans, Mexicans, Guatemalans, Colombians, all that stuff, right? 54:54 Um there's variation in terms of outcomes. Yeah. Uh but as a whole, if you look at the data as a whole, um a lot of Latinos 55:02 who comprise the majority of Latinos in the US, like Mexicans, Dominicans, they don't do well educationally, especially 55:07 the men. So that's why I'm comfortable using that that the Latino uh term and label for 55:12 this this this uh this topic. Thank you for explaining that. Yeah. But it's still variations, skin, 55:18 color, and no different outcomes. Um, but a lot of these communities, 55:25 a lot of Latino communities or immigrant communities from Latin America, especially they're like homogously 55:31 homogeneous homog they're homogeneously Dominican. My bad, I can't talk today. Or primarily predominantly Dominican or 55:38 Mexican. Um, they're underinvested 55:43 and I think the conversation should focus on that first, right? Because there's not a lot of like resources to 55:49 supplement um kids learning in these neighborhoods. There's no there's barely any free or affordable after school 55:55 programs or maybe people don't really know about the existing ones. There's any there's no like free barely any free 56:01 SAT prep. There's not many mental health resources for youth, teen youth. There's 56:07 um um not many free affordable after school programs. A lot of these families 56:12 are headed by single women moms who work as well. And I could speak about the Dominicans specifically. I can't speak 56:18 about other. So that means so that means like what the the the male have to go out like get their own money. 56:24 Well, hustle. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Especially when you're underfunded, you had to figure out a way to make some money. Well, before that um before I talk about 56:30 the the gender division, I want to say that I think like if we address the material conditions, I think like both men and women would fare pretty well 56:38 if our schools are actually funded and we have more teachers. We actually invest more in counselors and like 56:43 school safety and surveillance technologies. If we invest like in mentorship and more after school 56:49 programs, more like recreational activities, test prep in these communities, then the then the gender 56:54 gap wouldn't be a topic because maybe I think there still would be a gender gap because women are I think socialized to 56:59 uh with more responsibility. There's higher more higher expectations unreasonable expectations on women that which is messed up which is cultural 57:06 and um and I don't think that's is limited to Latinos at all. Mhm. Um but I think if like we invest in 57:12 those communities, if our communities invested, the gender gap between men and women in Latino communities would be 57:17 insignificant. It would be like a a minus. Okay. It wouldn't be as severe as it is now. And to answer your question about why 57:23 there's a gender gap. And I think we have to look at specific case studies. I can't speak about Mexicans. I can't speak about like Colombians. I can't 57:29 speak about whatever. Right. Yeah. We have to be very specific like why is there gender gap, let's say, in the 57:34 Dominican community? How how big is the gender gap within the uh I don't have the data for the 57:39 Dominicans now but there is a gap right Nancy Lopez has a a book called uh 57:44 troubled boys um something girls apologies maybe you could put that book 57:50 here but she finds that um she does an ethnography and she does interviews of 57:56 at high school in New York City that's predominately Dominican Caribbean and she finds that like often the boys this 58:02 is in the early 2000 were criminalized more or worse worse than girls for the same behavior, right? 58:09 So already they were being pushed to sort of like that school to prison pipeline to suspension, right? For instance, having a hat on, girls were 58:15 actually kind of like allowed to have a hat on because it was fashion. Well, boys, they're reprimanded. Yeah. Yeah. 58:20 Um and these other little different things. And also like outside of the school system, who's mostly outside hanging out? Probably the boys, right? 58:27 The girls probably not allowed. So they're being policed also by police. Yeah. Yeah. And um and other law types of law 58:33 enforcement. And then there's also things happening in the also also like I know a lot of cats, you know, I'm not saying this is what is 58:38 going on with everyone. But I know cats have like the the hustle out on the street, right, to make quick money to 58:44 make whatever money that they need to, right? And then they'll have their girl, but like the girls study, 58:50 you know, you getting they're getting their school, they you know what I'm saying? They get their education. You see that a lot. They getting their 58:56 education, but the dude is like, I'm making my own money my own way. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? 59:01 Yeah. I think there's two pieces. I think like one, boys are kind of like they receive like stricter punishment in 59:08 schools than girls. And I don't maybe this this doesn't apply to all groups, right? But I say 59:14 like a lot of boys of color, they receive they they have like there stricter punishment, but maybe because like they behave they have more behavioral issues. They have more 59:19 behavioral issues for many reasons. Um but even like for the same behavior as Nancy Lopez finds that they're often 59:25 like punished more severely. Okay. And um so imagine that happening every day not just like in schools but 59:32 also maybe like outside on the streets. And um and there's a second thing maybe 59:39 there is like ideas of like um culture where like well like patriarchy 59:46 doesn't require me to sort of pursue higher education or like machismoism or whatever like 59:51 doesn't require me to achieve higher education in order for me to sort of feel like I'm a man 59:57 to feel like I've been emasculated. Right. Do you think do you think people relate to like getting higher education 1:00:04 to be like like feminine in a way like or is it like like non-masculine to be 1:00:09 educated or do you think that could be a thing? Yes and no. I don't think so. I think 1:00:14 like I think the culture, the perspectives, the outlooks on education is shaped by the environment. 1:00:20 So if you're in an environment where you're being pushed out, then you're going to sort of adjust your outlook to sort of like survive. 1:00:26 And so okay, whatever. I'm not I don't see myself kind of like thriving because many of like like think about a lot of Dominican when I grew up I grew up I 1:00:32 went to Gdubs I grew up here in the Heights I grew up I was I had a friend group of like there was 10 of us 1:00:38 I was the only person I was like one of I was probably the only person or one of two people that graduated high school 1:00:46 Mhm. out of those 10 people on the block. Wow. And the only person maybe to like get a four-year degree, right, men, boys 1:00:54 at that, right? These people, they don't have models, 1:00:59 they don't have mentors, they don't have people in the block, who have degrees, 1:01:06 who who have done this education route and it worked for them. Most people they see are drug dealers. Most people they 1:01:12 interact. So that's what they see is possible for them. They don't see I'm not I'm not using that as an excuse, 1:01:17 but the reason why they only see that is because historically those neighborhoods have been disinvested because there weren't like 1:01:23 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the red lining and all have like impacted how much resources were in the in the neighborhood 1:01:28 that could be poured into re into like neighborhood amenities that will maybe make people more like 1:01:34 have a better outlook towards education because they see people. Yeah. This this guy went to Stanford. This guy wanted 1:01:39 this. I want to be like him. Like he could do it. I could do. You know what? trust the process because a they trust it because they know people 1:01:44 who've done it. And that's why that's what happens in Asian-American communities. Think about Asian-American community in Chinatown. 1:01:49 Their their neighborhoods are full like of neighborhood amenities that facilitate their educational trajectory 1:01:56 and their success and because it's been it's tried and true, 1:02:01 right? So for them, it's like because because why is Indians like I think they're the the richest minority? 1:02:07 Well, a lot of them come like educated. A lot of them come they migrated because of the heart seller act the H1Bs 1:02:13 H1B1 right so they were many of them were um skilled migrants right so of 1:02:18 course you freaking be middle class the top the creme of the creme of India here are coming here yeah yeah um 1:02:25 so so what do we need to do in order to change that when it comes to our culture we just need to put more money in these 1:02:31 communities and I think like the reason why I talk about Dominicans because I I grew up up with a lot of Dominicans who 1:02:36 come from like single family homes where the mom is like leading is like the household the the the head of 1:02:42 household. Yeah. You can't realistically expect that one mother to do work, cook, clean, make 1:02:51 sure the education is all that stuff. Everything is is set especially they're going they have the other bar the other 1:02:57 barriers that they're kind of like um dealing with like as being woman of color, right? Low income 1:03:03 one person um in household. Yeah. Yeah. Because also and know to raise a a man in the house that's an 1:03:10 extra type of work they were like you said what I'm saying especially these kids are growing up without the the the father in the house as well which also 1:03:17 has an impact. Yeah, it does have an impact, right? Especially well and we that's where the comm the the state 1:03:23 needs to come in, the local government needs to come in to help and and provide like these extracurricular activities, 1:03:28 free or subsidized specifically for those households because like if those ex amenities don't exist, what the kids 1:03:34 is going to do? Either be at home alone by himself while their mom works and or in the streets because there's nothing else to do. 1:03:39 Nothing else to do. This is a cool thing to do. It's a cool thing to do, right? It's a cool thing to do. I don't I don't think it's going to change overnight, but I 1:03:45 think but but but how come that So, but what about the the why? Cuz I'm pretty sure 1:03:51 you see it like when it comes to like social issues, Afro Latina or any any 1:03:56 type of social issues, we see more women on the forefront. Why are we seeing more women activists in the forefront than we 1:04:02 seeing men? I think it goes into the anti-intellectual. We see a lot of more women like pursuing higher education. Higher education. And also I think like 1:04:09 for some reason like also social justice activism or like being um 1:04:16 being uh knowledgeable about like or just being compassionate, 1:04:22 being empathetic, being all these different things, right? That's that's you're very social being 1:04:28 social justice oriented is feminized. And the reason why they perceive it as as like something as a feminine thing is 1:04:35 because maybe anti-intellectualism. they're not pursuing how they're then not taking these courses to like unlearn and all that stuff. Um, so I think it 1:04:41 has to do with like the feminization of like these social justice issues partly not entirely before yall come for me. 1:04:46 Um, I think that's it. That's a reason why I remember like I see in my own 1:04:51 comments in Tik Tok when I post some stuff people like it's always the LGBTQ it's always the gays. It's always I'm 1:04:58 not even gay, right? It's always the gay. So I'm like is it's wild. And and the funny the funny thing is that you see is 1:05:04 gay men and and women. Yes. Yes. And it's funny that you see not funny but was the pattern is mostly 1:05:11 gay men or queer men and women and women with the higher more years of education 1:05:16 than straight men within like the Latino community or even the black community, right? Or even communities of color. Um, 1:05:24 so there's like an interesting pattern there. And um, the connection between like being pro like social justice and 1:05:31 LGBTQA is wild that someone was saying like, "Wow, you must be that was you must be gay. 1:05:37 This gay this gay college." So So one thing that that that is 1:05:42 interesting came to mind when you were talking about this, right? Um people don't people don't don't know or I'm 1:05:49 pretty sure people forgot about this but remember when the ozone layer the aerosels are the ones that were like 1:05:54 hurting the ozone layer the aerosols the the the the aerosol that was coming 1:05:59 out of the the ACs and the sprays were so man-made stuff was man-made stuff was like so it was 1:06:05 deteriorating the ozone creating global warming creating global warming and stuff like that right facility rapid yeah 1:06:10 yeah the the the so nobody nobody body I think and and one of the people that 1:06:16 discovered it was one of them or scientists was Mexicana was a student 1:06:22 but nobody was doing anything about it and people were like even rallying 1:06:28 against going like who cares we love using our aerosols people don't remember 1:06:33 that women from all over the world every race were the ones that were like you know we care about our babies right 1:06:40 we're going to have to change this and the only reason why we put laws in place to ch take out the arrows were because 1:06:46 all the women collectively came together and made that change happen. You know what I mean? 1:06:52 I don't remember that but that's interesting. PhD. 1:06:59 Thanks for educating me. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. So yeah. No. Um I I think there's a what 1:07:06 what do we need to do right when it comes to you know like we talked about 1:07:11 so many issues. We talked about, you know, Afro Latin, the cast system, you 1:07:16 know, our community, right? What are things that we could do to make a change, a prominent change happen? 1:07:24 What do you think? Um, I guess like since we were talking about a lot of like 1:07:29 anti-intellectualism, Latino men, whatever. I guess I maybe could speak more to like straight men right now and 1:07:35 because I think like a lot of queer men, a lot of like women are doing the thing already, so I can't speak for them. So, 1:07:41 I think they're doing a lot of work and they definitely need more assistance. Um, I think 1:07:49 just having more I think we need more vulnerability. Men need more vulnerability, right? I think men need 1:07:55 to have more like conversations around 1:08:01 issues that will generate that bring conflict. And I think men are very conflict averse, especially with other 1:08:06 men. Mhm. And I think they need to kind of just not um just work through that and um 1:08:13 have a have a like I think about a lot of barber shops for Trump, right? A lot of men in barber shops vote for Trump. 1:08:19 So we need to like penetrate those spaces. Straight men who like have a similar idea or understanding about products of 1:08:24 the world than we do here. Um or just in general, right? Just talk to your barbers about these issues. like 1:08:31 be curious, not necessarily judgmental so far cuz I think a lot of these people as you said like they were like 1:08:37 bamboozled. I don't think they really know and they kind of exposed to like one narrative. So if you do sort of have 1:08:42 information um that you think like other people might not like there's ways to share it in a healthy way just having 1:08:49 dialogue. But you ever talk to these people? Um I 1:08:54 you know it's like talking to your battles. Pick your battles. Pick your battles. But I think like I think change 1:09:01 happens slowly. I don't think in change it happens incrementally and slowly. And I think like you have to trust that 1:09:08 whatever seed you plant is going to grow or whatever message you leave is going to ripple out. 1:09:14 Um and I think that's cuz I I think it's unreasonable to say you need to be at the front line starting this men movement, whatever. You could do that. 1:09:20 Great. But I think like change is slow. And if we all do one little act of kindness or one one little thing like to 1:09:26 maybe have a start this conversation with your family slowly but surely about these things or your neighbor or your friend and then like be consistent with 1:09:33 that. I think then you'll start seeing like the ripple effects over time. Maybe not in your lifetime. And I don't think 1:09:38 like I'm going to see like dramatic change in my lifetime. Maybe. I hope so. But but hopefully you would you would think things will be 1:09:44 different. We're 2025 about to be 2026. Yeah. You know, I I what I think what we 1:09:50 need to do is, you know, it it has to be in our hands. A lot of times we're like, oh, the government needs to do this, do that. Yes, it comes with the elected 1:09:56 officials and we need to be put putting pressures because now not only anti-intellectualism, now we're talking 1:10:02 about defunding education and then and we're talking about like I I grew up in over here in Harlem, bro. I 1:10:09 went to school out here. I went to public school and I'm pretty sure if it was properly funded, I would have been 1:10:15 studying engineer. I would have gotten an engineering degree. I wouldn't have been a comedian. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. But uh 1:10:21 And we love that you're comedian now. Just saying. I love I love you bring joy to I love being a comedian, bro. Like but but as 1:10:26 an adult, that's when I I I I found what science was 1:10:32 so late in my life and I was always like going to school and and it was public school, but I was 1:10:38 like why why this biology is so interesting to me? Why is science so interesting? Why chemical reactions was 1:10:43 so great? so interesting to me. You know what I could have studied now I 1:10:50 ombre studying physics and buying books on physics and who Isaac Newton was. I 1:10:55 didn't even know who Isaac Newton was in school in high school. You see what I'm 1:11:00 saying? And then it is discouraging at the same time because I'm like wow the potential the things I could have and 1:11:07 there's millions of people like me right that could have gotten that 1:11:12 education in school and high school. But I'm pretty sure like with in people in a higher class, United States of America 1:11:19 or anywhere else have gotten that education. Studying physics is a is a 1:11:24 privilege. It's a huge privilege. It's a major privilege to even get a degree in engineering is a privilege 1:11:30 that I didn't have the chance to have and there was no way in hell for me to 1:11:36 get that. Right. So I think moving forward is you know educating the youth us men we got 1:11:44 to come together like you are educated man you're getting your PhD yeah I am for education 1:11:50 we need to be creating groups for our youth but if we have to develop a school of our own then so be it let's do our 1:11:56 own after school we have to do some shit like that because it it only survives in our hands. Yeah, I think this is a good 1:12:03 Thank you so much for mentioning and I think this is an invitation to just be more active in also your local community board. I don't expect people to like 1:12:09 transform state policy or federal policy, but um what you could do is attend a community board meeting and see 1:12:15 where the money is going and ensure that the money is going to the youth, ensure the money is going to community, ensure the money is going to like um um to 1:12:23 facilitate the success of young people. I think about uh there was uh back in a 1:12:28 couple years ago uh there was a fund going around for uh a community sort of 1:12:36 like uh le project that the council me person was inviting community members to 1:12:42 apply for and it was upwards of like a million dollars and you could just like fly apply for this and you could tell them like I want to use this money 1:12:49 for XYZ. Yeah. Yeah. They gave half a million dollars to build a dog run in Washington 1:12:54 Heights when our biggest issue is like um teen mental health. Wow. 1:12:59 Education and stuff. And I'm not blaming the council member or anything is a lot of it. We don't know this information. Yeah. Right. So there's a lot of money and 1:13:06 there's a lot of opportunity in our local uh in local politics in our community board that um we could access 1:13:13 and use to uplift our youth, right? to uplift like the future, prosperity, 1:13:18 posterity and um also to enrich ourselves, right? It's not only about it's about us, right? Because we are mentors, we are people in the community, 1:13:24 right? Um and to resource ourselves too soon. Hey man, I appreciate you coming 1:13:30 through. Uh this has been a phenomenal conversation. Like an hour and 13 minutes went by and it flew by for me 1:13:36 and uh thank you for coming through. I knew this was going to be great and I think this is very beneficial. These conversations are tough conversations 1:13:42 that we need to be having and I would love for you to come back. Oh, yeah. Thank you for having me. I had 1:13:47 a great time and let let people know where they could find you. You could find me on IG or Tik Tok. 1:13:53 That's platanos. Platanos Well, Plata knows. Follow me. I'll be posting more videos. 1:14:00 Be patient with me because I'm getting my PhD. So, I'm writing a whole book and that's taking a lot of my time. So, 1:14:05 good. Let me know when the book comes out so like that we can promote it and support your ass. I got you. Thank Also, join the 1:14:10 conversation. Write in the comments what you think. You know, give us five stars all over the place. Like, subscribe.